John Kerry, 81, has been virtually all the things in American politics. Born in Aurora, Colorado, he served as a U.S. senator for Massachusetts from 1985 till 2013. He was the Democratic Celebration’s presidential candidate in 2004, when he misplaced to George W. Bush. Barack Obama appointed him as secretary of state in his second time period (2013-2017), the place he performed a decisive function within the signing of the Paris Settlement in 2015.
These had been very completely different instances from Donald Trump’s turbulent second time period. The incumbent president ceaselessly launches assaults on science and is trying to torpedo world efforts to include world warming or alleviate the world environmental disaster.
All through this video interview — which Kerry granted to Le Figaro, la Repubblica, and EL PAÍS on the eve of the 2025 UN Ocean Convention, which was held in Good, France — the topic of Trump was ever-present. The previous secretary of state, whose final political appointment was as Joe Biden’s particular presidential envoy for local weather (2021-2024), now works for an funding fund targeted on the vitality transition.
Query. Why is the Excessive Seas Treaty essential? And is it a failure that, two years after it was drafted, a number of international locations haven’t ratified it?
Reply. It’s a world failure that, in spite of everything these years, we nonetheless don’t have any legal guidelines governing a big proportion of our oceans. The excessive seas [are] outdoors the jurisdiction of any nation. And, consequently, there’s terribly outrageous habits on the excessive seas. We now have international locations participating in fashionable slavery on ships. Additionally, in some areas, there are tens of hundreds of small vessels engaged in unlawful fishing. However they don’t do it alone; they [obviously] need to depend on bigger vessels, whose flag isn’t at all times [legitimate]. These giant vessels sit and look ahead to unlawful vessels to convey them the fish, which they then course of and ship all over the world. There’s lots of piracy. [The oceans offer spaces for] arms smuggling, drug smuggling, human smuggling… and now we have no legal guidelines which have regulated a lot of these actions [or that] have been enforced. We can’t enable these actions to persist within the zone of darkness that exists on the excessive seas.
Q. This yr, 2025, marks 10 years because the signing of the Paris Settlement. Trump has once more withdrawn the U.S. from the pact. And, final yr, world warming was already 1.5°C above pre-industrial ranges. Do you assume Paris will fail just like the 1997 Kyoto Protocol?
A. Effectively, Kyoto had necessities that aren’t within the Paris Settlement, which permits every nation to [craft] its personal strategy to this problem. So, it’s actually not the identical. Trump withdrew from the Paris Settlement in his first time period, however the American folks remained. On the subnational stage — states and cities, [through] their political leaders — continued to implement legal guidelines on renewables and the transition to a clear vitality economic system. Greater than 1,000 mayors, these in each main U.S. metropolis, remained within the settlement. Moreover, 37 governors function beneath what are known as “renewable portfolio requirements,” which require them to [generate a certain amount of their energy from renewable sources].
The [green energy] market is proving worthwhile and is attracting personal capital in a lot higher portions than ever earlier than. Final yr, round $2 trillion had been invested in clear vitality worldwide. On the citizen aspect, there’s the transition to electrical automobiles, the set up of photo voltaic panels… there’s an entire host of issues which can be occurring and can proceed. However what President Trump has performed has affected the tempo of this transition. And the tempo is vital, as a result of science tells us that sure detrimental impacts will happen if we don’t act shortly sufficient to vary course.
Q. What would you say to those that assume the U.S. will not be a dependable companion in local weather and environmental diplomacy?
A. I might inform them that a lot of the USA continues to maneuver in the suitable route. Sadly, President Trump has clearly made engagement [with the U.S.] very tough. And that’s a loss, not just for different international locations, however for the USA, for our personal residents, who is not going to profit from being companion. It’s very unlucky. And people of us who’ve labored our complete lives shifting in the suitable route and selling good coverage — not ideological coverage, however good coverage, based mostly on science — to reply to the problem of the disaster we face globally are clearly upset. However we’ll proceed doing all the things in our energy [to combat climate change].
Q. Are you involved about how a number of giant companies and monetary establishments in your nation have not too long ago shifted positions in terms of the struggle in opposition to local weather change?
A. Some corporations have publicly backed away from their commitments, however they are saying they’re going to proceed placing the cash and energy into reaching these targets. So, it’s too early to say what the extent of affect will likely be. However I feel it’s unlucky that some folks have felt compelled to try this. Clearly, they’re anxious in regards to the affect of retaliation in opposition to their companies… however I feel this will even contribute to slowing issues down. The Wall Road Journal ran this headline just a few weeks in the past: “The Clear Vitality Revolution Is Unstoppable.” When The Wall Road Journal runs that sort of headline…
What’s occurring will have an effect on the tempo of the transition. However the vitality transition will proceed. And the largest problem is whether or not we commit to creating it occur as shortly because the science says it must.
Q. In your nation, scientists have been laid off and worldwide databases are set to be shuttered. Do you assume the federal government has entered right into a sort of obscurantism or McCarthyism relating to science?
A. Certainly, some science initiatives and grants to universities have been reduce. It’s a tragedy. We’ve realized over the centuries that science is important for everybody. In 1755, Lisbon skilled a large earthquake and, later, a tsunami. All town’s church buildings had been destroyed and round 40,000 folks died. For years, this sparked an awesome debate amongst such notable thinkers as Immanuel Kant, François Voltaire and Jean-Jacques Rousseau. And the query was: why did it occur? Some argued {that a} vengeful God had unleashed his wrath on folks for the way in which they had been dwelling. However that debate finally led to the Age of Cause, the Age of Enlightenment, based mostly on science.
In a method, we left flat-earthism behind. [But] we’re now dwelling in a brand new period of flat-earthism, the place now we have folks attempting to promote the concept local weather change is a hoax with no foundation in any respect. They’re spending billions of {dollars} speaking about [so-called “clean coal”] and the virtues of oil and gasoline.
Q. However do you assume it is a type of McCarthyism?
A. That is determined by what you imply by McCarthyism. Is there a disregard for actuality and details? Is there a name to accuse folks, to pit folks in opposition to one another? Sure, there’s polarization. And polarization is actually harmful. However I feel the essential factor is that, centuries in the past, we had a struggle over details and science. And now, now we have a brand new struggle during which we should restore credit score to science.
We’re in a tough state of affairs, preventing in opposition to pink herrings, in opposition to straw males… I had a colleague in the USA Senate named Daniel Patrick Moynihan. He was an awesome senator from New York and he mentioned that everybody has a proper to their very own opinion, however not their very own details.
Q. And the way can the world get well from these damaging U.S. actions towards analysis?
A. We are going to get well if folks perceive their very own empowerment. France, Germany, [Europe overall] and extra international locations have the capability to conduct science and improve funding. And that’s going to need to occur. It’s not in contrast to the controversy over European protection wants within the context of Ukraine; [the EU has] determined to spend extra.
Q. David Attenborough’s new documentary reveals the significance of defending marine reserves from backside trawling. What do you consider this topic?
A. I feel it’s completely important that we defend these areas from backside trawling. I used to be the chairman of the fishing subcommittee within the U.S. Senate. We rewrote our fisheries legal guidelines a number of instances. And, within the course of, we had many discussions about backside trawling. We by no means discovered consensus. However [the practice is] extraordinarily damaging, as a result of it ravages the ocean flooring indiscriminately. It uproots seagrass beds, which releases carbon dioxide that’s been saved within the ocean. It has a profound affect. I’ve seen [Attenborough’s] movie and it actually reveals that damaging facet. That’s not the suitable option to fish… now we have higher methods of doing it.
Q. Trump has authorized an government order authorizing deep-sea mining, together with in worldwide waters. What do you consider this?
A. That’s not likely essential and it additionally has the potential to trigger extraordinary harm. Everyone knows what mining has performed to the Earth’s floor. I feel it could be a really harmful step.
Q. The 2025 UN Ocean Convention passed off within the context of a fierce battle between the Trump administration and the EU over tariffs. How would possibly a commerce battle affect ocean safety and, extra broadly, local weather change?
A. I oppose tariffs. I imagine they’re not the way in which to pursue considerate multilateral initiatives. [They create] unilateralism, which robotically turns into a sort of tit-for-tat that spirals uncontrolled and has a profound detrimental affect on the knowledge and readability that the market wants. Massive quantities of capital are already being withheld: many economists have predicted the chance that this tariff battle will produce a recession. And now we have precedents, just like the Nineteen Twenties with [President] Herbert Hoover, after we noticed what occurred with this [kind of] tariff battle.
I feel the remainder of the world goes to react. In the USA, many enterprise leaders I do know are deeply involved in regards to the route during which the administration has moved. And I hope we will return to a extra orderly and structured course of. Now, that’s to not say that world commerce shouldn’t be reformed and that — in some instances — higher guidelines, higher enforcement and higher accountability aren’t wanted.
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